What Happens When Energy Policy Ignores Storage ft. Dr. Radovan Kopecek | Soliverse Ep. 37

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0:00SPEAKER_00: InGermanywedidacalculation,theMinistryofEconomydidacalculationhowGermanyshouldbepositionedintheenergysectorinfuture,andtheyjustforgottoincludebatteriesinside.

0:13SPEAKER_01: ThatisDr.AdolanKopesek,aphysicistandco-founderofISCConstance.Hethinksthatoneofthebiggestmistakesinenergytransitionisplanningthefuturegridwithoutfullyaccountingforstorage,evenwhencostsarefallingfast.

0:30SPEAKER_00: ForGermany,ofcourse,thelastpuzzlepieceislong-termstorage,andmanypeoplesaythathydrogenwillbethefinalsolution.Ialsoagreewiththat.

0:39SPEAKER_01: Hebreaksdownwhatthesystemisstillmissingandwhylong-durationsolutionsmatterifyouwantreliabilitythroughthewinteraswell.

0:48SPEAKER_00: Evenifthecellisbombardedbyprotonsandelectrons,withsomeprocedure,whenthesunisnotshining,wecanrepairthecellandthesatelliteinthedarkzone.

0:59SPEAKER_01: Todayheshareswhythenextphaseofsolarisinseparablefromstorageandhownewefficiencytechnologyisopeningunexpectedfrontiers,includingspace.Bytheendofthisconversation,youwilllearnwhatisslowingpolicyandGreecedown,whatsolutionsactuallyclosethegap,andwheretechnologyisheadingnext.I'mPeterPongrats,andthisisSoliverse,thefutureofsolar.

Why has the global solar market changed so fast?

1:26SPEAKER_02: Nicetofinallyseeyouagain.Anduh,it'sbeenawhile,right?It'sbeenalmosthalfayear.NowwewemetinAugust,anduhyou'vebeentouringtheworldeversince,right?Soumwhywhydon'tyoutellusaboutthat?

1:37SPEAKER_00: Thanks,Peter,forhavingmeagain.Yes,wechattedhalfayearago,andum,asyouknow,uheverythingisevengoingfasternow.Anduhwehaveuhinterestingpolitics,economy,uhanduhyes,ininPV,theworld,PVworldisturningevenfaster.AnduhChina,therearemanychangesinIndia.Theyplantogoto100gigawattuhverticalintegratedproduction.Youknow,theyhavenowahugemodulecapacity,evenovercapacities,sotheyarenotnotlearningfromuhtheovercapacityininuhChina,anduhnowtheyareplanningtouhgotowards70gigawattcellproduction,alsoinGottwafer.

2:30Wecanmaybeuhdivedeeperintothesubjectlater.InuhEurope,there'salsonowmovement.Idon'tknowifyouheardthelatestnewsthattherewillbethreebillionuhgrantedforevenGermanuhverticalintegratedproduction.I'veseenbitsandpiecesofthat.Yes,Iwouldalsoliketoknowuhwhatthisexactlyis.AnduhinUSit'sevencrazier.Youknow,ElonMusknowannouncinghewantstogo100gigawattuhproductioninUSanduhalsoverticalintegrated,anduhpeopledonotknowexactlywhatitisaboutbecausehe'stalkinguhfromTeslaside,notfromSpaceX.

3:14Imean,inSpaceX,hehasalsobigplanstodotoputuhcomputingcentersintothespace,butlet'ssaythat'sthat'suhacrazystory.ButIbelievewhatishappeningintheUS,whatwealsothoughthalfayearago,thatthisannouncementofuhmininuclearpowerstations,youknow,uhAmazonwastelling,yeah,nowthecomputingcenterswillbepoweredbymininuclearpowerstations,that'scompletenonsense,ofcourse.Thiswillbedonebybyuhsolarandstoragebecausestoragenowbecamesolowcostthatuhthat'stheonlythingitmakessensetosetupuhhugecapacityofuhelectricityproduction.

3:57SoIthinkit'saboutit'saboutthis.AnduhElon,whenhedecidestogo,Ithinkhewillgo.

What has Trump-era policy changed for US solar manufacturing?

4:04SPEAKER_02: Yeah.ImeanthethesmartlessontobelearnedistheyouneverbetagainstElon.Youknow,likewhetheryoulikehimornot,hewillexecuteontheplan.Soandandanduhmaybemaybelet'sstartwithumwhatwediscussed.UhitwasAugustwespoke,andnowit'sFebruary2026.Somanythingshavechanged,youknow.Trumpumhasbeenintheofficeforquiteawhile,anduhtheUSisturnedalittlebitupsidedown,anditdependsonwhichstateyouarein,youknow,yourrenewablesarealittlebitthreatenedaswell.

4:34Um,howdoyouseethat?Like,howdoyouseethatchangeinthisshortperiodoftime?Anduhwhatdoyouexpecttoseeinthefuture?Maybelet'snotevenlookfurtherthan2026.

4:44SPEAKER_00: Solet'sfirstlookatattheUS.UhanduhtheystartedwellwithuhuhtheInflationReductionAct.Nowit'schangedtothisuhbig,beautifulbill.ThereareacoupleofuhproducingcompaniesinintheUSthatwillcertainlycontinuebecauseuhtheydidbuildtheirbusinessplannotonlyontheInflationReductionAct,buttherearemanyotherincentives,andalsowhatisinfavorofproducingstillinUSaretheimporttariffs,ofcourse.

5:15AnduhsoSaniva,QCells,ESFoundryuhareproducingperkatthemoment.IbelievethatuhTopconwillcomenowbecauseSilfAppisnowuhrampingup.Theyhadsomeproblemswithsomerulesinthecountry,anduhnowalsoT1isquiteactive.AndIthinkwhat'sabiggamechangerisinintheUSisthatCorningisnowcomingwithuhsevengigawattcapacityofIngotWaifer,anduhtheyofcoursewanttohavelocalproductionofcellsaswell,anduhtheyhavealsoacquireduhJSOLanduhuhsosomoduleproduction,andanduhnowwithElon'sannouncements.

5:58Ithinkifwecanputallthepiecestogether,IalsothinkthatinUSwewillhavesimilarlytoIndiauhasecondPVproduuhproductionhubinuhinthefuture.AnduhTrumpisbuildingonlocalproductionanduhhighimporttariffs,anduhsolet'ssaythethesituationisusisnotsobad.AnduhininIndiait'sit'snowevenbetterwithproduction-linkedincentives,anduhalsotheChinesearenowtryingtoassisttheIndianplayersbecauseyouknowinChinait'snowforbiddentouhbringanotheruhproductionuhfacilitiesinChinaonline,sotheyhaverestrictions.

6:45Forexample,uhtheycanonlylet'ssayuhproduce30%oftheircapacities,otherwise,thereisauhmarketentry,soit'sit'sextremelystrict.SotheChinesearelookingnowforpossibilitieswherewheretoexpand,andMiddleEastisoneoptionforthem.UhIndianowaswell,butIbelievealsoEurope.IfuhEuropenowputsmoneyonthetableforstartinglocalproduction,thenitcouldbeaninterestingmarket.Solet'ssayumcomparedtohalfayearago,I'mI'mnowmorepositiveaboutthatuhlocalizationofproductionwillreallyhappeninfuture.

7:31SPEAKER_02: Andonourpreviouschat,wetalkedaboutyouknowpotentiallyworkingtogetherwithChina,youknow,totobasicallykindofreverseoutsourceorresourcetoEuropeandbasicallybothonthefactorydesignandthemanufacturinglines,butalsotheknow-howalittlebitaswell.Sohasthatactuallymadeanyanysortofmeaningfulprogressonthisperspective?

7:51SPEAKER_00: Yes,Imeantherearemanyannouncementsnowthat,forexample,HolosolisisworkingwithTrinaanduhuhCarbonhasnowuhLongionboard,soyoucanalsoseeinwhichtechnologytheyarenowmoreuhinvesting.Holosisgoingthetopconway,Carbonmorethethebackcontactway,becausewealsobelievethiswillbethefuturetechnology.AndalsoinIndia,asItoldyounow,thethecompaniesthatChinesecompaniesuhtrytoconnect.

8:22WhathappenedinIndiathelasthalfayearwasextremelyworryingbecauseuhlet'ssaythecorporationofChinesecompaniesoftenuhwereuhmeanttosendthesecondhandequipmenttoIndiauhsothattheyareabletoexpandininChina,andandthatisnotagoodsignbecauseImeantheIndianmarketisnotasecondhandmarket,anduhnowIthinkitwillbereversedbecausetheyacoupleofcompanieshavealreadybadexperiencewithsecondhandequipment,anduhsohopefullythiswillstop.

9:01AnduhIhopethatthecooperationwillbeonanotherlevelthatthatalsotheChinesewillgotoIndiaandalsouhdeveloptechnologiestogetherwithIndia.ThisiswhatwearedoingactuallyinIndia.Youknow,wehavecorporationswithacoupleofcompaniesproducingtopcorn,andtheyarealreadyaskingforbackcontact.So,ourmissioninIndiaisuhwearepromisingtothecompaniesthatwearenotonlyuhsendingGermanequipmentthereanduhmaketheinstallations,butwearealsouhuhopentostayinthecompanyandandhelpthemwithRDandfuturedevelopmentsforPECcontactanduhtandems.

What did China understand about PV manufacturing before everyone else?

9:45SPEAKER_02: That'sveryinteresting.AndandmaybeifyoucantelltheaudienceaboutwhatyouhavebeendoinginChina,besidesthethehigh-levelthingsofbasicallyshowingthemhowuhwhatarethebestwaysofproducing,butbutbutI'veseenyouknowyou'vepresentedatmanyconferencesaswell.Cancanyouspeaktothekindoflocaladministration'sperspectiveofhowtheyapproachsolarandandthemanufacturingsideofthings,andandwhatarekindoftheprosandconsbetween,let'ssay,IndiaandandChina?

10:15SPEAKER_00: WestartedtocooperatewithuhChinalong,longtimeago.Andumwehadabigcooperationwithastate-ownedcompany,uhSPIC,SPIC.Theywereumlookingforahighefficiencytechnologytodifferentiatefromlet'ssaymainstreamproductionlikePERCatthattime,anduhISCConstanceandSPICwecooperatedtotobringuhbackcontacttechnologytotheChinesemarket.Thatwasin2018.AnduhsothatwasthefirstbackcontacttechnologyinuhinChina.

10:54Thatmeansuhthethemoduleslookveryniceonthefrontsidebecauseyoudon'thavethemetalonthefrontside,butit'salsomoreefficientthanstandardtechnologies,uh,becausethelightcanpenetratemucheasierintothefrontsidewithoutanyreflections,anduhthatwasatthattimethehighestuhefficiencyuhininuhChina,anduhthecoupleofcompaniesalsohavelearningsfromthat,likeLongiandICO,andwentalsothebackcontactway.

11:30AndwearestillorganizingworkshopsinChina.Forexample,lastyearwehaduhuhBiFiBackContactPVsummitininYivuorganizedbyAikoandISCKonstance,anduhwewereshowingthePVcommunityandalso,let'ssay,theinvestorsandpoliticiansininChinaandallacrosstheglobe,youknow,becausetherewerealsomanyuhvisitorsfromIndia,thatuhcrystallinesilicontechnologyisstillnotattheendoftheroad,wecangotomoduleefficienciesofuh26%ininfutureandstillincreasethelevelizedcostofelectricity,whichwillbetogetherwithuhuhlow-costbatteriesaroundonetotwocentsperkilowatthour.

12:18Andthat'sacompletegamechanger,youknow.Anduhthenwecanalsocometothebeginningofourconversation,andthat'sthereasonIthinkwhyElonMuskisnowalsorealizingthatthat'sthebestwaytoelectrifyhisuhcomputingcenters.Sothat'swhatwedidinChinaforalongtime,andnowalsothetheIndianmarketisinterestednotonlytoadoptoldtechnologieslikePERK,butgoingalsotowardsuhnewtechnologieslikeBackContactandTandem.

12:51Theydon'twanttobeuhfollowersanymore,theywanttobealsoleadersinincrystallinesilicontechnology,anduhI'malsoveryproudthatuhwewereablenowtobringtheAsianconferencebacktoIndiaagain.Youknow,I'minasteeringcommitteeofAsianPVtech,andtheywerealwaysdiscussing,okay,let'smakeitinKorea,theWorldConferencenow,let'sgotoThailandanduhChina.AndIwassaying,yes,butweshouldconsideralsoIndiatobecomingthethebiguhproductionhub.

13:24Andin2028,uh29,thatwillbethethe40thuhPVsecinAsia.WegototoIndia,soit'sweareveryhappytopreparealsotheIndianmarketforbeingleaders.Yes.

13:40SPEAKER_02: Dowealreadyhaveuhawebsitewecanlinktothat?

Why could India become the next major solar manufacturing hub?

13:43SPEAKER_00: Sosomaybethethere'snotsothereisstilladiscussionininwhichcityitshouldbe.IthinkthelasttimeitwasinKalkata.UmnowmaybeNewDelhiorHydra,butit'sitdependsonwhichcompanyalsowillwilluhsponsorthisthisconference.

14:03SPEAKER_02: Makessense,andyouknow,I'malsodoingquitequitealotofworkwithuhIndiaandtheMiddleEastaswell.Sowemightseeeachotherthereinayearortwo'stime.

14:11SPEAKER_00: IfyoucometoIndia,pleasecomeinOctoberthisyear.WeareorganizingtheGigawattPvTechconferencenowforthethirdtime,anduhthistimewewillitwillbeatuhPremier.It'soneofthemajoruhsolarcellandmoduleproducersininuhIndiainHyderabad.AndwewillalsoinvitemanystudentstotoshowthemthatuhtheyshouldnotonlylookinreallycompletenewtechnologieslikePerovskies,butalsobeinvolvedincrystallinesiliconsteel.

14:45There'shugepotential.

14:46SPEAKER_02: Amazing,amazing.Yeah,I'llI'lltrytodomybesttomakeit.Andandandasyousaid,youknow,differenttechnologiesandwhatIfindfindwithIndiaisthatyouknowtheinnovationandthetheexecutioncanbesoswiftcomparedto,forexample,Europe.Youknow,ififtheyhavethethebackingandthebothfromthepoliticalsideandalsotheindustryside,thingsarereally,reallymovingquick.Soit'sit'ssomethingthatweshouldn'ttakelightly.

15:13Andyouknow,therearesomanysmartpeopleinIndiawhowhoarereallyabletoexecuteandandallthatknowledgewhichisyouknowhasbeentotheUS,maybecomingbackhome,it'sit'sreallysignificantaswell.

15:23SPEAKER_00: Yes,andandespeciallynowalsowhenwhenthePVsectorismovingtowardsuhartificialintelligenceanduhcybersecurity,andthisisuhafieldwherewheretheIndiansareextremelyuhwelltrainedtotoummakethishappen.Sosoprogrammingandandanduhdevelopingofnewproductionstrategiesandsoon.Yeah,soyeah,wecandefinitelybenefitfromtheirknowledgeinthefuture.

15:51SPEAKER_02: Yeah,indeed.AndIIasyoumentioned,youknow,softwareengineeringandalsouhhardwareengineeringaswell,it'sit'squitetherefortoday.Sothat'suhthat'sgoingtoputquitealotofuhweightbehindthewholeoperation.Andyouknow,intermsofuhIndiascaling,let'swewetalkedalittlebitaboutthesolarpart.Likewhat'stheirapproachwhenitcomestobatteries?Likehowhowdotheyviewthis?

16:14SPEAKER_00: Iamnottheexpert,butdefinitelytheyhaveuhseenthatuhwhentheywanttoplaythebiggame,theyhavetouhsetuptheproductionacrossthewholevaluechain.Anduhsotheystartedwithmoduleproduction,nowtheyaremovingtowardscellproductiontotocatchupthetheproductioncapacitiestheyhave.Andofcourse,withcell,uhIdon'tmeanonlysolarcellforformodules,butcellforforbatteries.AnduhIthinkthisisalsopickingupthereininIndiathattheywanttohavealsothethepartofthiscake,anduhI'msurethattheywillbequitesuccessful,andalsohydrogenisisabigbuzzwordthereaswell.

17:00Anduhsilicon,forexample,theyalsowanttogothiswaybecauseitwillbeextremelydangerouswhentheyhavealmostallthepartsofthevaluechain,butuhexceptof,forexample,siliconoringotwafer,andthenChinawillstoptotouhshipuhthewaferstoIndia,thentheyaredependentagain.Sotheyshouldbuildacompleteindependenceintheircountrybecausetheyareenergyhungryanduhtheycanproducetheenergythemselves.

17:31SPEAKER_02: Andifyoulook,let'ssay10yearsintothefuture,whatwouldbeyourbet?Wewouldhavelikeuhdifferentunitsorcontinentsoftryingtodoverticalintegrationofthewholevaluechain,suchasuhUS,Europe,China,andandmaybeIndiaaswell.Oryouknow,likewhatarewhatisthelikelihoodofuhsharingsomeknowledgeaswellandexperience?Andbecausebasedonthepoliticalsituation,nowwearemovingtowardsuhdeglobalization,right,ofthewholeumoperationofanybusiness.

18:00Sowhatwhatwouldbeyourbet?Howdoyouseethat?

18:03SPEAKER_00: Yes,Ithinkthatinfutureeverycountrythatthatneedsuhlow-costelectricity,andumI'mtalkingaboutelectricitybecauseactuallythewholeenergysectorwillbemovedtotoelectricityalsobecauseofelectriccarsandandheatpumpsandanduhanduhthingslikethat,oruhumAIcenters.UmIndia,USandEuropewilltherewillhavetheirlocalverticalintegratedproduction.Anduhit'sit'squiteeasyumestimation.

18:43IthinkChinawillbestillthethebiggestplayers,uhsupplyinguhtototherestoftheworldaswell,liketoAfricaandandanddifferentplaces.Soin2027-8,whenwewillreachumorit'sbettertotalkabout2030,becauseIthinkEuropeisnotreadyin2027,butuntil2030,thetheterawattproductionwillcomefromfromChinastill,dependingononwhatdemandwillwehave.MaybetwoterawattwillcomefromfromChina,andthenwewillhavehubslikeUS,India,andandEurope,whereweaimtohave100gigawattuhverticalintegratedproductionforself-consumption,butmaybealsoforforuhsomesomeexports.

Is China shifting from export engine to domestic solar giant?

19:31SPEAKER_02: Wow,soandquitequiteabigbiggap,right?AndifweifyoulookatthethedatacomingfromChinaofwhattheyinstalledperyearandtheyaresurpassingeveryyearofalloftheirtargets,youknowwhat'syourfeelingontheirstrategy?Isityouknowuntilnowtheywereproducingmostlyforexportanduhhasthatchanged?Sonowit'smoreforself-consumptionaswell,orororarethereanyshiftingnarrativesononthepoliticallevel?

20:00SPEAKER_00: Yes,yes,thereare,butuhinacompletedifferentdirection.Sosotheytheyproduced,Ithinkin2025,everysecondmodulewenttoChinastill.Sotheyinstalledabout350gigawattoutofthis700gigawattthattheworldneeded.AnduhIheardthisnewsuhalreadylastyearthatthiswilltremendouslydecreaseininChinabecauseofnetstabilityproblems,anduh,eventhoughtheyhavelet'ssaylesspercentageoftheiruhelectricityinthegridthanthanGermany,Germanyhashasamorestablenetforthat.

20:41Youknow,weprepareditalreadyforenergytransition.InChinait'snotthecase.SoalreadylastyearthereweresomeuhbadnewsandrumorsthatChinawilldecreasetheirinstallationsanduhuhofofsolarandandandwillputmorewindenergyintothegrid.Thatthatdidnothappeninuh2025.Butagain,therearesomesomebadnewsfor2026thatthis350gigawattwillbereducedto150gigawatt,soitwillbeonlyhalfananduhbutasyouknowthisthisuhnewsthereareuhalreadysince10yearsoutthere,theInternationalEnergyAgencyishavingthisbadforecast,anduhBloomberghasslightlybetterforecasts,butstilltheyaresayingthatnowitwillthisexponentialgrowthwilluhflattenout.

21:39Idon'tknowumwhatwillhappenthisyearinChina.Iguessyes,itwillbenotuhamassivegrowthagain.Ithinkitwillbestillaboutthreehundredumgigawattneedthisyear,butitwillslightlyreduce,itwillnotgrowexponentially.Butthegoodnewsis.Nowwehaveverygoodsolutionsalsofordecentralizedsystems,likeuhuhpowerthecomputingcentersandanduhbuildswithumummodulesandanduhbatteryuhforexample,chargingstationsforforcarsandsoon.

22:19SoevenifChinawillnotexpendsomuchintheirinstallations,Ithinknowtherestoftheworldwillpickitup.Andweseeitalreadyinmanycountries,likeforexample,lastyearinPakistan,thereweremanyuhhouseholdsuhusingbatteriesandanduhuhmodulesevenwithouttheconnectiontothegrid.AnduhsoI'mstillconvincedthattheexponentialgrowthwillcontinueevenifChinawillnotumbethebiggestumuhuserofmodules.

22:54UmImeantheywillstaythebiggestuhmarket,butmaybetheywilluhreducethethegrowth.Forsure.

Is the era of standalone utility scale solar already over?

23:02SPEAKER_02: Andcomingbacktowhatyoujustmentioned,uhwhatwouldbethethebiggestbottlenecksthattheyface?Isitisitstillthegrid?UhasaswehaveinEurope,forexample,youknow,thethethenegativepricing,etc.Sothethegridwasn'treadyforsuchyouknowmassiveexpansionofrenewables,ororwhatwhatisthemainmainissuethere?

23:22SPEAKER_00: Yes,thisiswhatIhear.Imean,hereI'mreallynotnotabigexpert,butuhIwasininChinaandatthebeginningof2025,andItalkedtomanycompanieslikeFutura-san,Aiko,Longie,andtheywerereallyfearingthatalreadyin2025themarketwilluhuhreducetoonly150gigawattneed.Anduhthegovernmenthasplanstoinstallmorewindcapacitiesbecausetheyhadjustuhtootoomuchelectricityinthegridononsunnydays,andanduhthat'swhytheytheyalreadychangedtheirplanstogomoretowindenergy.

24:07Itdidnothappenin2025.Maybeititwillhappenin2026.Idon'tknow.Butbutit'sdefinitelythegridstabilityhere.

24:16SPEAKER_02: Onalogicallevel,itkindofmakessense,right?Becauseifyoutalkaboutwind,windisalittlebitmoregradualproduction.Youdon'thavesuchpeaksaswithsolar.Soifyoucouplethetwo,thenthenitmakeslogicalsense.Andyouknow,II'vebeentalkingtomanymanycompaniesandanduhacrosscontinents,youknow,inEurope,US,uhMiddleEast,etc.Andthegeneralfeelingisthatnobodyisreallyinstallingstandalonesolaranymore,andeverybodyisshiftingtheirgearstowardshybridprojects.

24:48Soyeah,letthatbeeithersolarplusbassorsolarpluswindorallthreecombined.Butbutthetheeraofthestandalonelarge-scalesolarprojectisprobablyover,andwewillhavesomemoreflexiblesolutionsthatwillneedtobebuilt,right?Whatiswhatisyourtakeonthis?

25:06SPEAKER_00: Yes,absolutely.Andanduhandbatteriesareabitthingnow,storage.ThatthatuheveryuhbiguhPVsystemwillgowithstorage,I'mI'mI'mquitesure.Anduh,youknow,inGermanywewedidthecalculation,sothegovernment,theuhministryofeconomy,uhumdidumthecalculationhowGermanyshouldbeuhpositioneduhintheenergysectorinfuture,andtheyjustforgottoincludebatteriesinside.Anduhthen,ofcourse,theoutcomewasokay,weneeduhmoregaspowerstationstobalance,anduhbutbutitwasreallyuhumpoliticallyummotivatednottoincludebatteriesinordertotoreallyhavegoodargumentsforforuhgaspowerstations.

26:04Butifyouincludebatteriesandandbatteriesaregettingsolowcostandsopowerful,thenImeanthetheendofthestorywillbeitwillbenotonlysolar,ofcourse,it'ssolar,wind,batterystorage,andandhydrogeninthefuture.Andthenthenwehavethecompletesolution.

26:21SPEAKER_02: Forsure.Andandwemadesomuchprogress,youknow,justsincewelastspokeintermsofuhthebatterydensityandalsosolidstatesuhetc.ImeansawuhonthenewstheotherdaythatumthereisalreadyaprototypeinChinathat'suhfullysolidstateuhEVEV.Sothat'sthat'samazingtosee.Sothat'sgoingtobeacompletegamechanger.Yes,thesodium,sodiumbattery.Iftheycanscalethat,thenumyeah,weweactuallycuredthetheproblemofyouknowthebatteriescanonlybeusedforshort-termstorage,andifyoucanbridgeeventhewinteroracoupleofmonths,thatwouldbeamassive,massiveuhincreaseingains.

27:00SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.Soformanycountries,thesolutionsarealreadytherewithoutuhthenecessityofbridginguhwinter,butforGermany,ofcourse,thelastpuzzlepieceislong-termstorage,anduhmanypeopleuhsaythatthatuhhydrogenwillbethefinalsolution.IIalsoagreewiththat,butthereareotherotherpossibilitiestosolvethat.

Can Europe actually rebuild local PV manufacturing?

27:24SPEAKER_02: Forsure,forsure.AndumyouwestartedtotalkaboutEuropealittlebit,soyoumentionedGermany.Uhhowhowhavewechangedsincelastyear,sincewelastspoke?Uhwhatprogresshavewemadeorwewehaven'tmade?

27:37SPEAKER_00: Yes,wedidprogressintermsofinsolvenciessofar.Uh,youknow,MeyerBurgeruhsteppedoutnow,Aleoandandandmanyothers.AnduhIwouldbeactuallyquiteuhdepressedwhenIwouldnothaveuhreadthethelastmessageasItoldyouatthebeginningofourinterviewthattherearethreeuhbillionsplannedtouhsupportGermanlocaluhproductionofphotovoltaics.Ihavetoinvestigatemorewhichconsortiumisuhisuhgoingtogoforthat.

28:16Imean,therearethereweremanyconsortiaplanned,asyouknow,inGermanyuhininthisInteressensbekundungsverfahren.UhthisumwhereuhourministerHabeckuhtriedtotoinitiatePVproductionagainbackinGermany.Sotheconsortiaarethere,anduhwhatwasmissingwaswasthethethededicationofofuhtheGermanfinanceministerthatuhheblockedeverything.NowitseemsthatthereismoneyinEurope.Solet'sseewhatwillhappeninGermany.

28:51InuhFrance,westillhavethesetwoconsortia,CarbonandHoloSolis.InItalywehaveAnelanduhFuturasanandacoupleofothercompanies,becauseuhininItalytheyhavethisuhschemesimilarlytotheInflationReductionActthatthatUSbroughtonthetable.Sohopefullytheothercountrieswillalsofollowtoo,inadditiontototheCAPEXtothisuh$3billion,forexample,forGermany,therewillalsosomeOPEXuhcontributionsfromeachcountry.

29:27SPEAKER_02: DoyouthinkweshouldunderstandthisasuhtheEUkindofdelegatedthistothelocallevelsofthememberstates?SobutisitisitEuropeanfinancingrepackagedonthelocallevelorisitsourcedfromuhlocalgovernments?

29:40SPEAKER_00: Ithinkit'samixture.Let'ssaynowtheuhcontributionforCAPEX,asIunderstood,iscomingfromtheEuropeanUniontoGermany,andtheneachmemberstatecanputsomesomefinancingschemealsoforthefortheOPEXonthetable.Andthiswillbelet'ssayfinancedbythememberstateitself,likeItalyisdoing,andanduhyouknowwewewetalkedalotabouthowtosupportthecompanieswithwithOPEX,andthenwehaddifferentdifferentschemeshowtodothat.

30:18AndumuhIthinkthisthisumuhdiscussionmustbeuhagainreinitiatedififGermanyisalsowillingtouhtosupport,let'ssay,notwithumbringinguhimporttariffsback,butmaybedoitdoitlikeumwhatwhatisbeingalsodiscovereduhdiscussedontheuhEuropeanlevelthatpartofthePVsystemsthatareinstalleduhhastocomefromumnowononEuropeanlevel.ThewordingisoutsideofChina.Hopefullytheywillalsohavesomewillingnesstotosaythebaduhword.

31:05Itcanitithastobelocallyproduced,notonlyoutsideofChina,butbutlocalproductionisisthebuzzwordthatactuallyhastocome.SonotonlyoutsideofChina,becausethenwewillhavealsolet'ssaythethetheproductionfromfromuhThailandororMalaysiacomingintoEurope.SopartofthevaluechainhastobeproducedinEurope,let'ssay30%ofit,andthathastobearule,andthisishowyoucaninitiatelocalproductioninthecountry,notonlygivingtheCapex,butalsosecurepartofthemarketforlocalproduction.

31:44SPEAKER_02: Indeed,andyouknow,speakingofthat,umwhatIactuallyfeeluhthatthenarrativehasshiftedintheinthelast12monthsuhcanbealsopartiallydedicatedandattributedtoTrumpaswell.SowewearesqueezedalittlebitmoreandwearerealizingmoreinEuropethatwereallyneedtosecureenergyindependence,andthat'snotjustenergyindependence,butit'salsopoliticalandalsoindustryindependenceaswell.Sothethemorecrazytariffs,etc.,Trumpcomesupwith,thethethemoreourpoliticiansareactuallyreactingtothat,andandanditit'skindofputtingalittlebitmoreurgencyintheirsaletotopushtheselocalizedproductionsandtotobemuchmoreindependent,asyoumentioned.

32:32SPEAKER_00: Yes,yes.SoinEurope,weweresleepingforformanyyears.Intermsofenergysupply,soforexample,inGermany,weweweboughtalwayscheapgasfromfromuhRussia,andalsointermsofdefense.WejustdidnothaveanyanyindustryoruhanywillingnesstobuilditupbecauseuhourbigbrotheruhUSwilldefendus.Uhthisthiswasalwaysclear.Nowwewon'thavewokenup,wewehavetodoit,andum,soalotofmoneyisalsoflowingintouhenergysecuritybutalsodefense,anduhthisiswhatwearebuildingatthemomentinGermanyandinthewholeEurope.

33:19Soit'sitit'sawake-upcall.

33:21SPEAKER_02: Itisindeed.Andonthedefenseside,IactuallyheardsomerumorshereontheEuropeanlevelaswellthat,forexample,youknow,ifwehypotheticallywouldneedtogotowar,theproblemisthateverycountryisusingusingdifferentammo.Soweweactuallycannotwecannotfightasoneunit,right?Soit'sgoingtobeit'sgoingtotakequitealotoftimeandalsomoneytotoharmonizeandlinethisup.Becauselet'ssay,hypotheticallyspeaking,ifRussiaattackedus,whatwouldwedo?

33:50Wewouldwesendthemsomestronglywordedletterslikepleasedon'tdoit,orcouldweactuallyrespond?AndIthinkasoftoday,wewecouldn'trespondforsure.Yep,itwilltakeaboutfiveyears.Andthethesecondpartofthethedefenseisthatthat'sactuallybeingtakenseriouslyisthecyberdefense,right?Andthisalsoappliestosolarandenergy.Soififwedon'tproduceourownsystems,uhweweknowthatwewealreadyhaveatleastsomeinverterproductioninEuropeuhwithuhsomesomesignificantvolumes.

Why is cybersecurity becoming an energy issue?

34:20Butifyouknowthiscybersecurityquestioniscomingupmoreandmoreintermsofenergysystemsaswell,becauseimagineifsomeuhsomeofouradversarieswouldputtoshutdownthegrid,wewereallyneedtobecarefulofwhattypeofcomponentsareweusing,whattypeofsoftwareareweusing.Sohaveyouheardanything,anysupportonthatsense?

34:43SPEAKER_00: Yes,yes,absolutely.AndthisiswhatGermanyisactuallyfocusingon.Soeachcountryuptillnowhadtheirumfocusononumuhuhdifferentvaluechain.Soforexample,uhItalyisgoingtowardssalesandmodulesbecauseNLisverybiginthat,Franceaswell.TheytheywanttosetupuhcellandmodulecapacitiesinGermany.Theyaremostlysupportinguhinvertersandandalsobatteries,butinvertersbecauseofthecybersecurity.

35:19AnduhthisiswhatIthoughtthatthattheGermanswillwillsupportinfuture.Iwasextremelysurprisedaboutthis3billionfromEuropeanUnionthatitisthoughtforthewholesupplychainfromsilicon.Imean,siliconwehave,ofcourse,it'sWackerandhavemorecapacities,butinbetween,everythingiscompletelymissinginGottwaferuhcellandmodulewehadaswell,butnowthereweremoreinsolvencies,sosowehavetobuilditupagain.

35:51Andyes,cybersecurityisabigbuzzword,anduhthisiswhatwhattheGermanumgovernmentisisfocusingon,butitseemsnowtheywanttohavethewholevaluechain,whichiswhichisgood.Andwhenwetalkalsoaboutdefense,cybersecurity,whatisalsoagoodtopicnowforcrystallinesiliconisuhspaceapplications.Anduh,soweatISCKonstanzhavedevelopedsinceumsevenyearsnowasolarcellthatissuitedforforspace.

36:22WecallituhPhoenixSiliconbecauseit'suhalsorepairingitselfininspace.Anduh,youknow,ElonMuskisnowshootingmanysatellitesupthere,andalsoAmazonuhisplanningtodothat.AndtheninorderthatwegetindependentalsofromUScommunication,wehavealsoaprograminASAtohaveourowncommunication,andweareworkingonitalsofromISCConstancetogetherwithASA.Thatinfuturewewillalsoproduceourownsolarcellsandmodulesforoursatellitesforcommunication.

36:59Andit'sbecomingabigmarket.MaybeyouhaveheardalsoaboutuhtheuhvisionsfromElonMusknowgoingtothemoonwithMoonStationandhavingthedatacentersinspaceandthingslikethat.SoSpacePVisbecomingabigmarketalsoforcrystallinesilicon.

37:21SPEAKER_02: Wow,butit'sit'ssointerestingthatyouguysalsohaveuhsomethingthat'suhthat'sapplicateapplicabletospace.It'ssuperinterestingtohear.

37:29SPEAKER_00: Yes,ImeanwestartedsevenyearsagoincooperationwithuhUScompaniesbecausetheyareuhyeah,UScompanies,ofcourse,theyhaveuhventurecapitalandaremorevisionaires,sowehavebeendevelopingalso,let'ssay,uhcellsforforthemoonandforforlow-orbituhsatellites.Andnowwiththisknowledge,weapproachedASARanduhDLRandsaidnowwewearereadytotofurtherdevelopitalsoforuhEuropeansatellitesandeventomakethetechnologyuhimprovedforEuropeanapplications.

38:06SohopefullywewecanuhevenleadthemarketnowinEurope.

38:12SPEAKER_02: Whenwearetalkingaboutthespacesolverandproducinginspace,thenthenextbottleneckwouldbethelogistics,right?SoSpaceXisalreadythere,theycanlaunchsatellitesuhandanytypeofpayloadsquitecheap.UhdoyouthinkwecangetthereonaEuropeanlevel,ormaybemaybeothercountrieswhocanyouknowlaunchandactuallyuhbringtherocketsdownuhatsimilarcostscalestoSpaceX?

38:40SPEAKER_00: Yes,thisiswhatpeopleareworkingon,andandnowASAalsouhwokeupandareuhsendingnownowastronautstothespace,anduhIthinkit'scalledArtemis,wheretheyhavebigplansalsotosendanastronauttothemoonandanduhhavealsovisionsthattheywanttopopulatethemoon,notthattheUSwillownthemooninfuture,youknow.SouhthereissomeracethatthatuhElonMuskactivated,andnowsimilarlyuhtowhatprompted,nowwewokeupbecauseofdefenseandenergysecurity.

39:16NowalsothethespaceactivitiesareareuhactivatedininEurope.

39:21SPEAKER_02: AndIguessalsothethetheunderlyinguhassetthereisthetherareearth,right?Wehavequitealotofuhuhraremetalsononthemoonaswell.SothequestioniswhoisgoingtobeabletomineitandeitherbringitbacktotoEarthorortotorefineitthere,right?

39:39SPEAKER_00: Yes,Ithinkso.Thisisalsooneoftheoneofthemissions,anduhnowalsoinChina.Umeverybodyisspeakingnowaboutcrystallinesiliconforspaceapplications.IthinkElonMuskwithwithhisannouncementreallyisumuhhaslaunchednowuhabigracetothemoon.He'snottalkingsomuchanymoreaboutMars,butbutthemoonisnowthefirst.

40:06SPEAKER_02: Yeah,Imeanit'smuchmucheasierobtainable,right?Yeah,yeah.Yeah,yeah.Wow.SoandandIguessthelaststepofuhhavingproducedenergyinspacewouldbehowwouldwebringitdown?Likewhatwouldbethemechanismbehindit?

40:21SPEAKER_00: Therearealsoprojectsonprojectsonthat.Youcanbringitwithuhmicrowavepowerdownthere,butbutIthinkthisisreallycompletenonsense,likelikeuhfusion,similarlytofusion.Imean,ifweproduceelectricitythereinspace,weshouldalsouseitinspace.It'suhlocalproductionofelectricity.Imean,wewelearneditfromfromourpast,forexample,forfromtheDesertecproject,youknow,therewasabigprojectthatwewillproduceelectricityinAfricaandandbringittoEuropewithuhwithcablesanduhbutthisiscompletenonsensebecausethenyouhavealsolosses,andumit'sitdoesn'tjustmakesensetobeuhdependentononothercountries,ithastobeproducedlocally,similarlytospace.

41:15Youknow,ifyouhavethecomputingcentersinspace,ofcoursetheinformationhastogodown,butnottheelectricity,justproducetheelectricitytherewhereyouwilluseit.Andthat'sthat'sthebeautyaboutaboutphotovoltaics,aboutsolar,thatincombinationwithbatteries,youjustcanproduceitwheneveryouneeditandnottootransportit.

Can US solar manufacturing keep growing without clear incentives?

41:37SPEAKER_02: Makessense.Imean,andI'vebeenhearingthesame,especiallyfromtheUS,youknow,uhthereismoreandmoretalkaboutdistributedgenerationuhonlargerscalesaswell.AndIIthinkititmakesthemostsense,right?Becauseifyouneedtotransportthatelectricitythatyouproduced,uhthelossescanbehugedependingonthedistancethethepowerneedstotravel,right?Yes,absolutely.Wow.SosotherearesomeinterestinginitiativeshereinEuropeaswell,butummaybelet'sdigalittlebitdeeperintotheUS.

42:07Souhatleastontheindustrylevel,I'mhearingmissmixedsignals,youknow,afterthethedemiseoftheuminflationreductionactandandwhatisgoingtoreplaceit.Soobviously,thereisalsonoclearguidanceuhontheUSlevel.Uhwhatwhatarewhataretheexpectationsfromfromthecompanieswhoareinsolar?Whatisthefeelingfromthemarket?

42:32SPEAKER_00: Imean,thecompaniesthatarealreadypuproducingarelet'ssayquitehappywiththeenvironmentatthemomentbecauseeverythingthattheyareproducingtheycanselluhbecauseumtheimporttariffsaresohighthatthatactuallyumuhlocalproductionisisisextremelywelcome.Butbutforfuture,ofcourse,thecompanieswouldliketohavemoremoresupportininCapExandOPEX.AnduhIdon'tknowifthisiscoming.IIthinknot.

43:05Inthenextuhthreeyears,thiswillnotcome,butevenwithoutit,companiesarearethinkingaboutexpansionsandonlybecausetheyalreadystartedtheproduction.Solet'ssaytheInflationReductionActwasagoodcatalyst,agoodinitiatorforthat.Andnowuhbecauseoftheimporttariffsandalsolet'ssaysomelocalsupportsfromfromtheuhstates,theytheyhaveastillagoodbusinessplan,likeforexample,Saniva.

43:36Wearenowsupportingwithproduction,andtheyarealreadytalkingaboutexpansionsandandhavetheircustomers,andsoit'srunningwell,butitcouldbebetterwhenthenextgovernmentororwhateverisiswillsupportthemalsowithwithuhotherincentives.

43:55SPEAKER_02: Excellent.SosoweweretalkingabouttheUS,sothethetheManufacturers,theyarequitehappy.IsthereanysortofambitiontoevenexportfromtheUStoothermarkets?Orno.

44:09SPEAKER_00: Theyjusthavetoreallyumcovertheirownneedsatthemoment.AnduhexporttoothermarketsisiswillbequitedifficultforUScompanies.Soit'sreallyonlytotocovertheirownneedsbecausetheycansellthethemodulesatatuhquitehighumpricescomparedtototheothermarketslikeinEurope.Sosotheyhaveaprotectedmarketandthereisnointentiontoexport,onlytotocovertheuhthelocalneeds.Andwhatishappeningisforexample,CorninghasuhsetupsevengigawattingotwaferandtheyhavealsouhtherearealsomanyuhmoduleproducersinUS.

44:59WhatisstillmissingisuharethecellproducersandandCorning,ofcourse,let'ssaywantstosellalltheuhumingotuhwafermaterialforforthelocalmarket.AnduhsotheyarenowlookingforpossibilitiesinUSalsotostartcellproduction.ButIbelievewhatcouldalsohappenthattheyareexportingwaferstotoothercountrieslikeIndia,forexample,andhavetheirIndianproducerwhichuhwhichisuhmakingthesalesandalsosendingbackthesalestoUS.

45:37Soexports,yes,butonlythatthetheendproductactuallyendsintheUSmarketbecauseofthehighprices.

45:46SPEAKER_02: That'saveryinterestingusecase.AndIIwonderhowlongitcanlast,youknow,ifuhififthemarketwouldopenup.

45:54SPEAKER_00: Ithinknotsolong.UhImeanthiscasethattheyarethatKoningisexpandinguhexportingwafersandanduhmakinguhfromselvesmoduleagainbecausethisthisholewillbefilledquitequitefast.Ithinkthattherewillbeabout10gigawattcellproductionininUSinthecomingtwoorthreeyears.Andyes,Idon'tknowwhatwillhappenwiththeimporttariffsiftheywillstaystillsohigh.SoitcouldhappenthatUSwillstayaprotectedmarketforforquitealongtime.

46:29SPEAKER_02: It'squitetricky,andyouknow,Iwonderlikeifthereisanypossibilitytokindofprojectormanagethelong-termimpactofallthesepolicies,right?BecauseIhavethefeelingthatyouknow,inthisworld,youasacompanyyoucannotreallyevenplanlongerthansixtotwelvemonthsahead.Everythingischangingsorapidly,thethepolicyischangingsoquickly,andthethegeopoliticsaswell,youknow,likelikewiththewiththepriceofuhsilvergoingthroughtheroof,uhthatalsocausedquitealotoftroubleinuhinthemodulemanufacturingaswell,right?

47:01Absolutely.

47:02SPEAKER_00: Anduhsoit'snotonlyfortheproducers,butalsoforaninstitutelikeISCConstanceiswecannotplantoomuchahead.Anduh,youknow,inthelastyearstherewasacutofRDmoneyinGermanyforPV,eventhoughtheGreenPartywaswasinchargeforthatbecauseuh,theSchuldenbremse,therewasnomoney,andnowourgovernmentthesedaysfortunatelyisnowputtingagainmoremoneyintoRDofuhcrystallinesiliconumcellandmoduledevelopment,butmostlybecauseofourstrongmachinebuilders,thattheyalsoumwillbeableinfuturetoexporttheirtheirmachines,forexample,toIndiaandUS,andwehavethetechnology.

47:53ButthequestionisalsowhatwillhappenafterthenextelectionsinGermany?WilltherebemoneyagainforRDofcrystallinesiliconornot?Andthat'swhyouruhbusinessmodelwehavetoadapteverythreeyearsthesedays,anduhthat'swhyalsoweumhaveastrategytotogomoretowardsspaceandandhelpASAtoestablishtheirtechnologyouttherebecausespaceisnowbecomingaverystrongbusinessandIthinkalsoalong-lastingbusiness,independentofterrestrialphotovoltaics.

Can anyone still forecast where the solar market is going?

48:32Butyouarecompletelyright.Imeanthecompaniestheyarejustumlookingatwhatishappeningoutthere,anduhwithtoday'spolicies,youcannotbesurewhatwillhappenuhinthenextweeks.SoIamsure,thencomingtoyouruhveryfirstquestions,I'msurethatanalystshavesomesomelong-termforecast,butit'sgonnabemanythingscanhappen.Exactly.Absolutely.It'sthesedaysyoucannotmakeanaccurateforecastwhatwillhappen.

49:06SPEAKER_02: Forsure.Andifwecirclebacktothemachinebuilders,likecanyougiveusastateofofthethecountrieswhoarethestrongestinbuildingthemachines,let'ssayonaglobalscale,isisGermanystilluhabigenoughplayer?OrIIknowthatJapanandChinaarearereallyaheadoftherace,butwhowhoelsewouldwouldbeabletoplayasignificantrole?

49:29SPEAKER_00: Okay,sointermsofphotovoltaics,Japanisisnotabigplayer.It'sit'suhbigplayersareImeanleadingisofcourseChina.Theyhaveininineveryuhvaluechainatleast80%ofthemarketshare.Andforexample,ininIngotWaiver,it'sevenuh98%marketshareofthewholemarket.SoChinaisagiant.AndbutstillinEuropewehavegoodmachinebuildersformoduleproduction,whichisEchoProghettiandatMondragon.ButinGermany,wehaveabigfocusoncelluhproduction.

50:14Uhsoininmyhomecountry,Baden-Württemberg,youknow,mostofthemarelocatedthere.WehaveCentrotherm,wehaveRena,andwehaveSchmied,butalsooutsideofuhBaden-Württemberg,Singulus,vonArdenne,andmanyothers,butalsolet'ssayonthecharacterization,therearegoodcompaniestoo,likeKalm,Wavelabs,ContronisworkingonMESsystems,andandwehaveIstravisionofuhopticalinspectionandsoon,andandandandmanymore.

50:46Soactually,Germanystillhasmanyuhmachinebuilders,andaswespeakinFrankfurttoday,justintwohours,therewillbeameetingofallthesemachinebuilderstogetherwithinstituteslikeuhFraunhofer,Ise,ISFH,us,HZB,howthetheGermanuhconsortiumconsistingofinstitutes,youknow,wehavethatstillthetechnologyanduharenormallyusedasasintegratorsandthemachinebuilders,howwecantogetheragainoffersomethingliketurnkeysolutionsouttheresothatthetechnologywillbemoreaccepted.

51:29Andthisiswhatthecustomersareaskingfornormally.It'snotsupplyingmachines,theyareaskingforturnkeysolutions.So,toansweryourquestion,uhquestion,Chinaisdominating,butstillGermanyisintheraceinIndiaandintheUS,alsobecauseofindependencequestionsandalsobecauseofcybersecurity.So,thebiggestargumentofSANIVAacoupleofyearsagowhentheydecidedtogouhmachines,uh,theywereevaluatingChineseandGermanmachines,andofcoursetheyrealizeduhtheCapExwillbemuchlowerfortheChinesemachines,buttheydon'twanttogetindependentonuhChinesecompanies.

52:15SotheyselecteduhGermanequipment,andnowtheirexpansionshopefullywillbealsobasedonGermanequipment.

What does a turnkey solar factory actually mean?

52:23SPEAKER_02: Soit'suhit'safullcircleuhintermsofcybersecurityaswell.Anduhwhenyousaidturnkeysolution,canyoudefinewhatthatmeans?Soisitisithardware,softwareuhcombinedandit'sreadytodeploy,ororwhatwhatdoesthewholepackagecontain?

52:39SPEAKER_00: Exactly.Sobasically,adescriptionofturnkeyisthatonecompanyisresponsibletosetupeverythingandtogiveyouthekey.Andifthecustomerisnotsatisfied,thentheywillhavetocopewiththiscompany.Whatishappeningoutthereislet'ssaysomecompaniesarecherrypickingthemselves,thatthattheyhaveanadvisorandhesaid,Yeah,butthisturnkeyisnotgoodbecausethisandthatisumIcanuhprovidebettersolutionsforscreenprintingandforwhatever.

53:16Andthenacompanycanalsodecidetogocherrypicking,andthentheyhavetotalktoeveryumcompanythathavesuppliedthemachines,forexample,ifamachineisnotworking,andthat'squitecomplicated.Andthenthefingerpointingstarts.No,it'snotmymyuhmachine,it'sit'shismachine,andthenpeopleareintrouble.

53:39SPEAKER_02: Anditcomescomesbacktotheverticalintegrationpart,right?Thatuhweweweseemtohavelearnedthelessonsfromthecarindustrynow,thatuhoncewefarmedoutallthealltheindividualcomponents,nowwearedoingthereverseandwewetrytoverticallyintegrateallofthoseoperationsandcomponentsintothefinalproduct.

53:59SPEAKER_00: Turnkeydoesnotnecessarilymeanthatit'slikeuhhavingthewholesupplychain.Butforexample,ifIofferasolarcellproductionfacility,thennormallythenotveryknowledgeablecompanies,whicharethethetheumlet'ssaycompaniesthatdidnotproducesolarcellsandmodulesbefore,likeReliance,theyareaskingforturnkeysolutionsthatthere'sonlyonecompanythatisresponsibleforforthewholething.

54:28SPEAKER_02: Makessense,andImeanit'seasiertohandleandanduhtroubleshootaswellifsomethinggoeswrong.

54:33SPEAKER_00: Yes,andyouhaveonefacetothecustomerandthenexactlythethecompanyhastotakecareoftheproblemthemselvesandspeaktotheothermachinebuilders.Sosoit'sveryconvenient.AndwhathappenedinthepastthatImeanallbigmachinebuildershaveofferedturnkeysolutionslikeCentrothermandRena.Butthistimeisoveralsobecausetheyumsufferedinthelastcoupleofyears.Andtooffertopicsolution,youalsohavetodo,let'ssay,abiginvestmentandthenbigumuhpackagetosecure,let'ssaysecuritypackagetosecureififtherewillbeiftherewillbeproblems.

55:21AndthisisalsowhatwhatisbeingdiscussedtodayinFrankfurt,howforexamplethegovernment,theGermangovernment,iftheywanttosupporttheseinitiatives,iftheycouldgivesomeguaranteesifaturnkeywillbeofferedagain.AtthemomentweareofferingturnkeylightsolutionstogetherwithCentrothermandRena,forexample,thattheliabilitiesareuhdistributedthroughallthepartners,butthereisonepartnerinleadthatistakingcareoftheoftheintegrationofthewholeproductionline.

56:02Butstillit'sit'snotaturnkeysolution.It'slikesomethingthatthatyouhaveonepersonthatisresponsible,butstillthetheriskisisdistributedamongthepartners.

56:16SPEAKER_02: Interesting.AnduhactuallyititbringsmebacktotheTeslaexampleagain.Youknow,Idon'tknowhowmuchyouyou'vereadabouttheTeslamegapacks,buttheydon'treallygettoomuchpublicity.Butuhwhattheydidisexactlytheperfectturnkeysolutionthattheydeliverthehardware,thesoftware,andandtheinstallationaswell.Souh,youknow,thosethoselargerpackswhereyouhave,Ithinkit'suh20megawatthoursperunit,andyouhavefourunitsjoinedbyaconnectingstationinthemiddle.

56:48Uhtheydeployit,buttheyalsoprovidethesoftwaretomanageit.Andthisisactuallyoneofthemostprofitablepartsofthebusinessuhasoflastyear.

56:59SPEAKER_00: Okay.Soundsveryinteresting.

Follow Dr Radovan Kopecek's work

57:01SPEAKER_02: Wedon'tknowwhatthefuturemighthold,butuhIseeweareactuallycomingtothetotheendofourtime.Anduh,Rado,Ireallyappreciateyoutakingthetime.Butbeforewewrapup,IIreallywanttogiveyouthefloortobasicallytalkalittlebitmoreabouttheinitiativesthatyouareworkingonthisyearandwhattypeofpeopleshouldreachoutandandperhapsyouknowuhpromotethoseinitiatives.Andwewilllinktoallofthoseintheshownotesbelow.

57:26SPEAKER_00: Okay,verygood.Thankyou.That'sagoodplatformtotalkaboutit.SoISCConstance'smissionthesedaysonterrestrialuhphotovoltaicuhplatformistoumgototocountrieslikeIndiaandUSanduhtransfertechnology,butwearealsoorganizingworkshopsandweareorganizingindustryforumsininonconferenceswhicharealreadyexisting.Sothisyear,whatwillbeuhquiteinteresting,forexample,inUSwithinthetheIEEEuhPVsecwhichwilltakepartuhtakeplaceinuhNewOrleansinJune.

58:14Weareorganizinganindustryforumwhereweareinvitingcompaniesthatwealreadytalkedabout,likeuhCorning,Suniva,FirstSolarfortheThinFilm,butalsoweuhaimtouhinviteTeslabecauseoftheirbig100gigawattplans.Andtheaimthereisnottomakeadvertisementsforfortheircompanies,buttotalktostudentsbecauseit'sit'slikereallyatechnicalconference.AndandinordertosetupproductioninincountrieswherePVproductionisnotumyetuhthere,orlet'ssayonlysmallproduction,whatisveryimportantismanpower.

59:00Andalso,again,makeuhstudentsinterestedtoinvesttheirstudiesintocrystallinesiliconphotovoltaicsbecausewhatishappeningoutthereintheworld,that'smanyumcountriesarefrustrated.NowwehavelostourcrystallinesilicontechnologytoChina,andwehavetogouhacompletedifferentway,goingtoperovskit.No,that'snottrue.Wealsomustbeinvolvedincrystallinesilicon.Andthat'sthemissionofISCConstance,toeducatestudentsintheUSintheIEEEconference,orwearegoingalsotoIndiaandareorganizingworkshopsthere.

59:43ItoldyoualreadytherewillbeaworkshopinOctober,GigawattPVTechinHyderabad,togetherwithuhRCTSolutionsandPremier,whereweareinvitingcompaniesandstudentstohaveadialogue,whatwillbeneededincrystallinesilicontechnologyinfuture.AndasItoldyou,it'snotonlygoingtohigherefficienciesandlowercost,it'salsoartificialintelligenceandcybersecurityandmaketheproductionuhmuch,mucheasierandnotsocomplex.

1:00:15So,thisisonething,andtherewillbealsoathirdconference,uhEUPVSEC,whichweareworkingveryclosewithuhinthisyear,itwillbeinuhRotterdaminSeptember,andtherewearealsoorganizingindustrysummitandforumsessionswheretogetherwithRDpeopleandindustrywehaveadialoguehowtohowtoimprovethetheworkbetweenthesetwosectors.

1:00:43SPEAKER_02: Andmaybecomingbacktothestudents,uhstudentsofwhattypeofuhuhstudiesshouldjoin?Anyoneinterestedininsolarmanufacturing,oristhereanyanysortofnichethatthatshouldgo?

1:00:56SPEAKER_00: Yes,sosotherearealreadystudiesforlet'ssayrenewableenergies,butit'salsophysicistsanduhmechanicalengineerswewillstilluhneedinfuturehowtobuildbettermachinesandhowtoimprovetheprocesses,butalsolet'ssayprogrammersaboutartificialintelligence,howtomakereallyuhadarkfactorythatthatuhnotmanypeoplehavetoworkthere,anditwillbesayproducedbyrobotsandandandthingslikethat.

1:01:24Soyeah,itit'sabroadspectrumofstudentsthatwillbeneededininarenewablesectorinfuture,alsoininPVintheproductionsector.Butwearealsoaimingnottoeducatestudents,butlet'ssayworkersthatuhhashavelosttheirjobs,maybealsoincarindustry,becauseit'snotnotrunningverywell,alsotoeducatethemhowtoproducesolarcellandmodules.So,togetherwithRCTSolutionsandVIP,thesearetheorganizersoftheEuropeanuhconferences,wehaveestablishedaplatformcalledPVTraining,wherewewanttotrainnotonlystudents,Imean,studentswillhavenormaleducationandthengotothecompaniesandandhelpthemwiththenewdevelopments,butjustuhbluecollars,likeuhworkersthatthatwanttobeinvolvedinthisinthismission.

1:02:21AndthisiswhatElonMuskwillneedthemostalsointheUS.Inorderthathewantsumthathewillget100gigawattcellandmoduleproductiononline,heneedspeoplethatwilluhworkinthefactoryandanduhusethemachines,hopefullyfromfromGermanytoproduce.Hecanhelpus.Yes.

1:02:47SPEAKER_02: That'samazing.SoIIdon'tknowhowyoumanagealloftheseuhtheseactivitiesintandem,butitseemslikeyou'reyouarebusy24-7.

1:02:55SPEAKER_00: Yeah,alittlebitless,butyes.Absolutely.SoI'mI'mtravelingquitealottodiscussabouttechnologytransfer,aboutumtrainingandandeducation.That'sthat'smymissionnow.Youknow,Iwasresponsiblefor20yearsforthetechnology.NowNietzscheisdoingthejobanddevelopingnewsolarcells,bifacialbackcontact,tandem,andthingslikethat.AndI'mresponsibleforstrategyandeducation.Andonepartofthestrategyisistobeinvolvedmorealsoininthespacearena,andbutonepartofthestrategyisalsototohaveISCconstantalsoasaplatformtotrainpeopleforforPVproduction.

1:03:42SPEAKER_02: Amazing,amazing.Butwe'llwe'llmakesuretolinktoalloftheseuhintheshownotesbelow.AndIhopethatthisisthisepisode,ifIcouldpickonefromthewholecatalog,Ihopethisreachesasmanypeopleaspossible.

1:03:53SPEAKER_00: Yes,verygood.Thankyou.Iwillalsopostitinallmychannels.

1:03:56SPEAKER_02: Yes,perfect,thankyou.That'salwaysappreciated.Butuhagain,fantasticsecondround,reallynicetohaveyouhere,andthenuhlet'slet'smeetininperhapsMunich.

1:04:08SPEAKER_00: Yes,MunichandthenHyderabad.

1:04:11SPEAKER_02: Yeah,thenHyderabadisall.Excellent.Wewehaveabeautifulthing,thankyouverymuchandhaveaniceday.Thankyouverymuch.